Ivy (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
ivybgreenflower) wrote2007-12-19 01:20 am
ivybgreenflower) wrote2007-12-19 01:20 am
Entry tags:
"Nice Guys?"
I'm going to do what this guy fabulously did, and deconstruct one of those "nice guy" rants, from a girl's perspective. Read his first, AND THE COMMENTS, because it's all so wonderfully true.
http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2007/12/16/the-internet-nice-guy-rears-his-ugly-head-once-more/
Here we go. Italics is the "nice guy", of course.
I see this question posted with some regularity in the personals section, so I thought I’d take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven’t figured it out.
What happened to all the nice guys?
The answer is simple: you did.
I did? I did what? I just ate dried cranberries. Is that what you mean?
See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He’d tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn’t feel like going out,
No, actually, because I wasn't hot enough.
or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were fucking treated you.
No straight male I've ever met has done anything like that. He'd probably tell me "Um, your boyfriend SUCKS", but he certainly wouldn't make me sob all over him. And why would I even want to? If I'm pissed at some guy, the last thing I want is ANOTHER one!
At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. hey probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you.
No. We joked about how freaking creepy it was that this guy kept following us around.
Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic,
No, again. His behavior was weird and stalkerish and made us a little bit uncomfortable, to be honest.
you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were “just friends.”
I'm not going to have feelings for someone who does nothing besides act like a friend. If you go shopping with me, talk about Disney princesses with me, bake cookies with me, just like my female friends, then how the hell am I supposed to know you want something else?
Besides, he totally wasn’t your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn’t know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.
No, no, no. It's because he didn't bathe, was extremely awkward, or, again, was creepy. Fit and Stylish, on the other hand, are men who obviously care a lot about how they're going to be perceived. You have to bathe and wear clothes from this decade, is all I'm asking. You don't have to be wearing Prada. Just look like you care just the tiniest bit about not looking homeless.
Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you werent dating him.
Well, yes. Spending time with guys who keep wanting to be all up in your business 24/7 after you've got a boyfriend is kind of weird.
More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren’t the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship.
Jesus's dear sweet mother this is one hell of a sweeping generalization. Relationships between two decent people sometimes end for other reasons than cheating, or some other guy acting like a "jerk".
So, now, you’re single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, “What happened to all the nice guys?”
1. If I was only going to bars and clubs, and not doing anything else to find a new guy, and wondering why all the guys were sex-fiends, I'd be an idiot.
2. I've never wondered that, because the nicest people I've ever met have kept being nice whether they were getting anything from me or not. I know where they are: they're being kind for no reason, being friendly, donating to charities, volunteering, and, most importantly, aren't expecting shit from girls they haven't had the guts to actually TELL they were interested in.
Well, once again, you did.
Once again I did what? I put the cranberries away!
You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy.
So the next time a guy does something nice for me, I should drop my pants and just let him have at it, is what you're saying. You're saying friendship between a man and a woman must include sex, otherwise she's being a bitch? That the next time a guy opens a door for me, I should start making out with him, otherwise I'm just taking advantage of him without giving anything in return? Either this is poorly worded, or you're an idiot.
You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion.
No. I laughed at his obsessiveness, and got a restraining order against his "devotion".
You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive “just-a-” friend.
Because the "aloof" boyfriend probably 1. wasn't an obsessive freak, and 2. ACTUALLY TOLD ME HE WANTED TO BE MY BOYFRIEND.
Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life.
And then wrote this, which is an obvious testament to how well he's moved on. Of course.
He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren’t really attracted to guys who hold doors open;
...my father holds doors open. By your logic, I should be attracted to him. You're a freak.
or make dinners just because;
If you've been making dinners, it's not "just because." It's because she's hungry and you think you've got a one-way ticket to yay-I-have-a-girlfriend town.
or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you’re upset; or hold you when you cry.
If a guy I didn't know was even interested in me bought me such a thoughtful gift, all I'd be thinking was "...creepy! ew!"
And friends listen to each other when they're upset. It's part of any real relationship, platonic or otherwise. This isn't taking advantage, this is being a decent person.
And if you're holding her, why did it never occur to you to say "Hey, ditch the loser, I'll be your boyfriend?"
He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he’d have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.
How is being clean and having some goals in life being an asshole? I mean, if all he ever wanted was to be a slob working at McDonald's, it's not some woman's fault that that isn't particularly attractive.
Fact is, now, he’s probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that.
I'm sure his current girl would love knowing that the only reason he's having sex with her is because he's still bitter over me (or whoever.) I'm just saying.
And I’m sorry that it took the complete absence of “nice guys” in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.
You know what? I have a nice guy. My boyfriend was a sweetheart from the word go, and continued to be even after it became apparent that he wouldn't be getting any. He opens doors for people, and not just attractive people. He listens to me without expecting me to drop to my knees in gratitude (take that as you may).
These are the main differences:
My boyfriend never expected anything from me in "return" for simply being a decent human being, and he also TOLD ME HE WANTED TO BE MY BOYFRIEND. This is important: you want a girl, say so. She says no, you back off. Don't keep being "nice" in the hope that she'll suddenly change her mind. You hanging around after rejection signals to her that you want to be friends, and her being friendly to you isn't her stringing you along. Just FYI.
So, if you’re looking for a nice guy, here’s what you do:
1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.
3.) Take a look at what’s right in front of you and grab ahold of it.
So what you're saying is, not a single guy alive these days is anything less than Hitler. Oops, sorry!
(On a side note, if my future self showed up, I'd be way too freaked out to be listening to her guy advice. I'd probably be more interested in knowing if bangles were still in style. And also wondering why a 20-year-old'd dating advice was relavent to a fifteen-year-old.)
I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don’t really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men.
All I'm going to say here is this:
Infants don't have taste in men. They have taste in bright colors, cheerios, and repetitive music.
In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.
If you were five years younger.
So... suddenly, five years pass, and I'm an old maid, and Mr. Nice Guy refuses to go out with women his own age...? What?
So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you’ve fucked yourself over. You’re getting older, after all. It’s time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn’t want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn’t fucking want you, now.
1. That last comma was unnecessary.
2. Any girl who whines about wanting a nice guy probably doesn't know any men, at all.
Any nice guy who will change himself into an asshole, willingly, was never nice to begin with. Genuinely good people don't expect rewards for being decent humans.
Any questions?
-1:55 AM
http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2007/12/16/the-internet-nice-guy-rears-his-ugly-head-once-more/
Here we go. Italics is the "nice guy", of course.
I see this question posted with some regularity in the personals section, so I thought I’d take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven’t figured it out.
What happened to all the nice guys?
The answer is simple: you did.
I did? I did what? I just ate dried cranberries. Is that what you mean?
See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He’d tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn’t feel like going out,
No, actually, because I wasn't hot enough.
or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were fucking treated you.
No straight male I've ever met has done anything like that. He'd probably tell me "Um, your boyfriend SUCKS", but he certainly wouldn't make me sob all over him. And why would I even want to? If I'm pissed at some guy, the last thing I want is ANOTHER one!
At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. hey probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you.
No. We joked about how freaking creepy it was that this guy kept following us around.
Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic,
No, again. His behavior was weird and stalkerish and made us a little bit uncomfortable, to be honest.
you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were “just friends.”
I'm not going to have feelings for someone who does nothing besides act like a friend. If you go shopping with me, talk about Disney princesses with me, bake cookies with me, just like my female friends, then how the hell am I supposed to know you want something else?
Besides, he totally wasn’t your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn’t know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.
No, no, no. It's because he didn't bathe, was extremely awkward, or, again, was creepy. Fit and Stylish, on the other hand, are men who obviously care a lot about how they're going to be perceived. You have to bathe and wear clothes from this decade, is all I'm asking. You don't have to be wearing Prada. Just look like you care just the tiniest bit about not looking homeless.
Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you werent dating him.
Well, yes. Spending time with guys who keep wanting to be all up in your business 24/7 after you've got a boyfriend is kind of weird.
More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren’t the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship.
Jesus's dear sweet mother this is one hell of a sweeping generalization. Relationships between two decent people sometimes end for other reasons than cheating, or some other guy acting like a "jerk".
So, now, you’re single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, “What happened to all the nice guys?”
1. If I was only going to bars and clubs, and not doing anything else to find a new guy, and wondering why all the guys were sex-fiends, I'd be an idiot.
2. I've never wondered that, because the nicest people I've ever met have kept being nice whether they were getting anything from me or not. I know where they are: they're being kind for no reason, being friendly, donating to charities, volunteering, and, most importantly, aren't expecting shit from girls they haven't had the guts to actually TELL they were interested in.
Well, once again, you did.
Once again I did what? I put the cranberries away!
You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy.
So the next time a guy does something nice for me, I should drop my pants and just let him have at it, is what you're saying. You're saying friendship between a man and a woman must include sex, otherwise she's being a bitch? That the next time a guy opens a door for me, I should start making out with him, otherwise I'm just taking advantage of him without giving anything in return? Either this is poorly worded, or you're an idiot.
You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion.
No. I laughed at his obsessiveness, and got a restraining order against his "devotion".
You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive “just-a-” friend.
Because the "aloof" boyfriend probably 1. wasn't an obsessive freak, and 2. ACTUALLY TOLD ME HE WANTED TO BE MY BOYFRIEND.
Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life.
And then wrote this, which is an obvious testament to how well he's moved on. Of course.
He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren’t really attracted to guys who hold doors open;
...my father holds doors open. By your logic, I should be attracted to him. You're a freak.
or make dinners just because;
If you've been making dinners, it's not "just because." It's because she's hungry and you think you've got a one-way ticket to yay-I-have-a-girlfriend town.
or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you’re upset; or hold you when you cry.
If a guy I didn't know was even interested in me bought me such a thoughtful gift, all I'd be thinking was "...creepy! ew!"
And friends listen to each other when they're upset. It's part of any real relationship, platonic or otherwise. This isn't taking advantage, this is being a decent person.
And if you're holding her, why did it never occur to you to say "Hey, ditch the loser, I'll be your boyfriend?"
He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he’d have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.
How is being clean and having some goals in life being an asshole? I mean, if all he ever wanted was to be a slob working at McDonald's, it's not some woman's fault that that isn't particularly attractive.
Fact is, now, he’s probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that.
I'm sure his current girl would love knowing that the only reason he's having sex with her is because he's still bitter over me (or whoever.) I'm just saying.
And I’m sorry that it took the complete absence of “nice guys” in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.
You know what? I have a nice guy. My boyfriend was a sweetheart from the word go, and continued to be even after it became apparent that he wouldn't be getting any. He opens doors for people, and not just attractive people. He listens to me without expecting me to drop to my knees in gratitude (take that as you may).
These are the main differences:
My boyfriend never expected anything from me in "return" for simply being a decent human being, and he also TOLD ME HE WANTED TO BE MY BOYFRIEND. This is important: you want a girl, say so. She says no, you back off. Don't keep being "nice" in the hope that she'll suddenly change her mind. You hanging around after rejection signals to her that you want to be friends, and her being friendly to you isn't her stringing you along. Just FYI.
So, if you’re looking for a nice guy, here’s what you do:
1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.
3.) Take a look at what’s right in front of you and grab ahold of it.
So what you're saying is, not a single guy alive these days is anything less than Hitler. Oops, sorry!
(On a side note, if my future self showed up, I'd be way too freaked out to be listening to her guy advice. I'd probably be more interested in knowing if bangles were still in style. And also wondering why a 20-year-old'd dating advice was relavent to a fifteen-year-old.)
I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don’t really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men.
All I'm going to say here is this:
Infants don't have taste in men. They have taste in bright colors, cheerios, and repetitive music.
In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.
If you were five years younger.
So... suddenly, five years pass, and I'm an old maid, and Mr. Nice Guy refuses to go out with women his own age...? What?
So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you’ve fucked yourself over. You’re getting older, after all. It’s time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn’t want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn’t fucking want you, now.
1. That last comma was unnecessary.
2. Any girl who whines about wanting a nice guy probably doesn't know any men, at all.
Any nice guy who will change himself into an asshole, willingly, was never nice to begin with. Genuinely good people don't expect rewards for being decent humans.
Any questions?
-1:55 AM
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I really liked your comments. Especially the ones about cranberries.
I hate it when my (single) guy friends comment about how girls only like guys who are assholes and never nice guys like them.
And then, I chuckle to myself because usually my single guy friends are assholes who are just desperate for action and take it out on the opposite sex. Because they are pathetic...
Anyway...
All the guys I've ever dated were nice guys.
no subject
I hate how, according to these "nice guys", the qualification for being an asshole is simply getting some while the "nice guy" isn't.
Oh well. :)